''Moved this discussion from [Ideas], since it seems that there might actually be some discussion on the subject. --JanneJalkanen''

''Do we add stuff at the top or the bottom? Need a convention!''

Take a look at [http://www.weblabs.eu.com/JSPWiki/Wiki.jsp]. I've added a "Jabber" link on the left menu. Try it! (sorry, the server was down for a couple of weeks. enter as guest:guest)

- YishayMor 07.05.2003

;p.s.:''In case you don't know Jabber: [http://www.jabber.org].''

Another interesting Jabber client is E3, which uses web-start: [http://complat.sourceforge.net/jnlp/Enigma3.jnlp] - YishayMor


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Just a wacky idea...  How could one combine a WikiWiki with an InstantMessaging system?

JanneJalkanen, 15-Apr-2003.

''Sum of all good things''

We are a small software company of 11 people.  Offices in Helsinki and Amsterdam.  We use IRC and Wiki to communicate (everyone from CEO to Sales to R&D uses all these).  We also collect links from IRC to a WWW page to keep others informed of important things (and sometimes just jokes and stuff).  The links contain the text from the IRC line where it was shown. As our product is a Wiki based ASP it is pretty easy to post links on IRC and people will look through the link list page for new features, items of discussion etc.

||Method||Advantages||Disadvantages
|IRC|real-time, fast|limited history
|WWW-page|real-time, fairly persistent|limited history, no discussions
|Wiki|persistent, higher quality documents|adding an entry takes time

So the sum is a ''real-time persistent document discussion forum''.  This is probably a bit difficult to do so let's just integrate these and get rid of the WWW-page as it is no good anyway.

Wiki to IRC link that notifies when a page has changed would be valuable.  So instead of posting links to IRC we could write wiki pages about links and have pages like 'Humour', 'Java links', 'Competition' and then we would edit those if we found intresting links.

IRC to Wiki link would naturally copy IRC discussions to wiki pages.  We seem to have different kinds of needs for doing that.
* Information about system maintenance (this might even affect customers, which communicate with us through a bunch of wikis).
* Generic contact information passing 'Contact: Niilo Neuvo, BaseN Oy, +358xxxx, anipa@basen.net'
** There could be other things than contact information that needs similar transfer to a more persistent location
* Information of new software features (there is a need to publish these also)
* Discussions about the links that got posted
* Discussions of almost about anything. 

If we just have a format of something like this on IRC:\\
>WikiPage This is appended to WikiPage (with my nick and possibly some timestamp information)\\

The WikiPage will become corrupt over time, so someone has to clean it up occasionally.  This is not a big problem.

It would be nice to be able to search for contacts etc somehow nicely.  And to replace wrong kind of information from IRC:\\
<Contact Niilo Neuvo, BaseN Oy: +358xxxxx, apina@basen.net\\
And if this is done again it would replace the row:\\
<Contact Niilo Neuvo, BaseN Oy: +358xxxxx, anipa@basen.net\\
This would make the wiki a small database, but with our 11 employees and this should last for a very long time.

++NiiloNeuvo
----

Or how about a JSPWiki bot that could sit on IRC/AOL/whatever and be your "IM buddy"
{{{
/msg JSPWiki add Humor Hey, [here's a good link|http://www.ecyrd.com]?

*JSPWiki* : Added to page "Humor"
}}}

Or
{{{
/msg JSPWiki search Niilo

*JSPWiki* Found 12364 pages, which one would you like to see?
}}}

Another wacky idea might be to use a collaborative editor for a WikiPage, so that everyone can see it modified in real time.  This would allow people to truly collaboratively edit the page, while in editing mode.  In that sense it would be better than IRC, which does not allow revising old messages.  IM, after all, is basically a transient, multi-author WebLog with no permalinks...

--JanneJalkanen

Well you kinda need a bot to listen to stuff on an IM.  If it sits on the same channel as you or is not on a channel is more or less irrelevant.  But the reason why I'd like for it to sit on my #Channel is that everyone sees the changes immediately.  And mass communication of changes is easier.

The search into the contact database would be quite nice.  Since everyone has their IM up&running all the time this would make sense.
{{{
/msg JSPWiki search @Contacts Niilo

*JSPWiki* Niilo Neuvo, BaseN Oy, +358xxxx, anipa@basen.net
*JSPWIki* Niilo Jalkanene, Nokia Oy, niilo.jalkanen@nrc.nokia.com
}}}

++NiiloNeuvo
----
I think the bot could be abstracted a bit more into a process that watches things and has a means to report different types of changes. Think stock market ticket tape. It would nice to have a general "watcher" which tracked notabel changes than various clients could either query the watcher for what they wanted, or the watcher could push to different clients and the clients would control what they wanted to display and how.  Kind of like an RSS feed of change status.

--GregElin

----

I have written a change to JSPWiki that lets me post things to pages inside the Wiki.  The two things that I have made public is the "bookmark" and "todo" features.  Both are bookmarklets that post items to my temporary book mark page or my ~ToDo list.  [Sample bookmarklets|http://www.schucker.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Bookmarklets].\\

At another place I have a process that posts to a Status page. (Part of the build process, ANT is your friend :-) \\

The JSP is a variation of the ~Edit.jsp. It allows me to put text at the top, bottom, date it, etc. Code available on request, it runs under the 2.0.31+ releases. (I'll try to fit into Edit.jsp once 2.1 gets out)\\ 

It would be easy to write a listner that would then do the posts to the page to track the activity on IRC/IM.\\

--[Foster Schucker]
----

Actually it is very easy to create a bot (using Eggdrop or somesuch) which simply adds lines containing keywords (for example (partial) URL's) to somewhere. Making it work both ways (search etc.) is easy, too.

--[Killer]


----

[Hydra|http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/productivity_tools/hydra.html] is something that could possibly be [described as an IM Wiki|http://www.beeth.com/archives/2003/04/index.html#2852].  I saw it in action in ETCon, and I was quite impressed.

-- JanneJalkanen, 30-Apr-2003

Hydra is now called [Subethaedit|http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/]. It's commercial and only available for the Mac. Theres a similar programm called [Gobby|http://gobby.0x539.de/index.html] which is licenced under the GPL for windows and linux (based on GTK). We used it in a [Workshop at the WikiSym 2005|http://ws2005.wikisym.org/space/InterWiki+Gobby+Session].

-- ChristophSauer, 21-Oct-2005

----
Well, one easy trick is - \\
use Yahoo! msgr, and add their presence indicator icon to your wiki page, like this: \\
[see if I'm on|http://opi.yahoo.com/online?u=yishaym&m=g&t=2]
[send me a msg|http://edit.yahoo.com/config/send_webmesg?.target=YahooUser25&.src=pg] 

But more seriously, I'd explore http://www.jabber.org, they have an open-source XML based protocol. I'm sure its possible to build a servlet based client (if their isn't one out there) that would satisfy your dreams.

- YishayMor


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[Joi Ito|http://joi.ito.com] has now a IRC [channel|http://joi.ito.com/joiwiki/IrcChannel] with a bot that allows you to post directly to a weblog using IRC and [Blogger API]: [http://joi.ito.com/archives/2003/07/03/joiito_bot_blog.html].

The #joiito channel had a [chumpbot|http://usefulinc.com/chump] that generated a webpage from IRC similar to the output found at the PANTS [Daily Chump|http://pants.heddley.com]. Note how the page tracks ''selected'' user comments on the given title url. Also the Chumpologica section uses RSS and FOAF to list the most recent posts from the channel members' own weblogs, with an accompanying weblog entry summary page. For IRC-centric groups this provides a dynamic representation of their channel and nearby nodes.

Another IRC weblog, [2lmc|http://2lmc.org/spool/], uses [Bot::BasicBot::Pluggable|http://jerakeen.org/programming/Bot-BasicBot-Pluggable].

The W3C [RDF Interest Group|http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/] uses a chumpbot in conjunction with a [logger|http://cvs.ilrt.org/cvsweb/redland/logger/] bot to link the webpage to the irc log, which allows the page's ''selected'' comments to be read in their full context.

Similarly, a [wikichump|http://wikichump.sourceforge.net/] posts links and comments to a [wikipage|www.arioch.org/phpwiki/index.php/WikiChump] for their #arioch channel. This bot does not generate new pages via IRC nor archive it's daily output to a new page.

An ideal balance would provide the IRC user with the ability to contribute to either a wikipage or a weblog page.

Wikis that refer to IRC should enable the irc:// url schema in their configurations because [ChannelsAreResourcesToo|http://joi.ito.com/joiwiki/ChannelsAreResourcesToo].

----

There seems to be big talk about integrating InstantMessaging and WebLogs:

* [Merging IM with blogging|http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/2231511]
* [http://www.corante.com/many/20030701.shtml#43037] - AOL Journals

----

IRC has lots of potential for WikiGardening.