What I don't see here is the point of going to the lengths of making an editor applet for a wiki and NOT making it wysiwyg! what's up with that?

--anonymous entry in the wikiwizard sandbox

Is there WYSIWYG anymore? I mean, for the moment it is what you get, but what happens if the webdeveloper changes the CSS completely, or if you copy and paste stuff from one wiki to the other? WikiMarkup helps people to conentrate on the essential stuff an forces them to think in terms of organizing information instead of concentrating on the looks. In a WYSIWYG Editor, people will use bold and font size 14 to make a heading and they won't even realize it. With WikiMarkup this doesn't work for good reasons. Still there should be some immediate feedback on what things will look like. This makes navigation in the document easier and helps to keep the overview. That's what we call WysiWiki.

I would be interested in what you all think of this concept of "WysiWiki"...

I know writely and the jotspot editor. Still we will continue to work on WikiWizard. Because I believe there should be an editor for people who like to continue to work with WikiMarkup and have the advantages of a "modern" editor, or "wiki development environment" if you like. Modern applets give us the requisite variety we need to implement this editor. WikiWizard 1.0 just lays the foundation - all the nasty stuff that makes applet development so much harder than working with JavaScript has been done. Now we can continue to implement the stuff that makes WikiWizard really useful. But i have to admit that there is still way to go. Hey - after all it's just version 1.0. Wait till version 3.1 ;) WikiWizard 1.0 is a proof of concept that applets still have their place. The TouchGraphWikiBrowser is another example.

For the FCK editor: we have rewritten the HtmlToWiki Package with standard JDK API libraries to implement copy & paste from Word and other applications that generate HTML flavors into the clipboard. We will continue to improve that translator. This package could help to get a better integration of FCK into the wiki. I would like to see a good FCK implementation as well, for end users. For power users that know how to make use of Plugins for example, WikiWizard might be more interesting, at least in future versions.

31-Mar-06 --Christoph Sauer


Very nice indeed! I especially like the fact you can do table editing - wiki tables are notoriously hard to edit/read! I do have one suggestion/contribution and that is to improve this table editing so that it looks/feels like Excel (which is what most people are used to). I'll have to clear it with my manager for this code to be used though. Please mail me if you are interested.

-- KieronWilkinson

One design goal was to resemble an "office" app. So your component would be welcome. End users are often afraid of using wikis, because they think it's too complicated. In an article Peter Thoeny, author of TWiki, recently adviced executives who plan to introduce wikis, to tell end users that it isn't harder than using email. So we designed the menu structure to resemble an email client.

I think though, that people should be aware of the wiki markup instead of hiding it behind an wysiwyg editor. The beauty of wikis is that a wiki document really is the essence of what the author was trying to preserve as "document". And the essence is, like Brooks put it, which "is the same under many different representations".

--Christoph Sauer


This is really seriously cool. Can I include this in the distro? Pretty please? ;-)

I'm like SO going to demonstrate this in the Wikimania conference...

-- JanneJalkanen

shure :)


It looks nice, but do you think is a good idea to use a editor that needs 1/2 - 1 minute to run?? and other thing, the user is still seeing the code, that fine for us, we are familiar with codes and languages, but not the end-user, the end user shouldn't have to see the code, this needs to be a real WYSIWYG editor.

--IAmNotCoward, 15-May-2006

The first time you load the applet it may take that long. But you may recognize that also JavaScript editors, if they are loaded the first time, may take some time. After that it takes not more than 1 to 5 seconds in my experience, depending on your machine and internet connection speed and the size of the wiki page. If it would take that long every time, belive me, we wouldn't bother to develop it any longer. It shouldn't be dependent on the internet connection speed though. We will improve that.

As a programmer, it's really not code for me, it's the easiest way to say exactly what I mean - some call that even WYSIWYM. There was a research project at the National Research Council of Canada called "Are Wikis Usable" by Alain D├ęsilets et al with grade 4 students (ages 8 and 9) where WikiMarkup was by far not the biggest issue. They had other problems a real WYSIWYG editor does not solve, namely the nature of a hypertext system and link creation and management. We will try to adress these issues in future versions of WikiWizard.

--Christoph Sauer, 23-May-2006

See that Screencast that gives you an impression on how fast WikiWizard loads, once the jvm is started and it is in the cache, at least at my machine.

--Christoph Sauer, 16-Aug-2006


Has anyone gotten this to work with Brushed templates? I put the editor jsp in the right place and I added a selection for it in the editors options in the PreferencesTab.jsp, but it still doesn't come up. Comes up find with the default templates, though.

Thanks,

Adam

--Adam Ehven, 18-Jul-2006

Hi Adam, see the next message from Dirk, hope that will resolve this:

Christhoph,

Tx for contributing the coolest WikiWizard !! I really like the approach of improving usability and still providing the power & simplicity of wiki-markup. I'am doing something similar in the BrushedTemplate through javascript; but off course far more limited then what is possible through java-applets.

One of the targets for BrushedTemplate is to keep installation as simple as possible: just drop the stuff in the template directory - and done. So I really would like to include your editor in the BrushedTemplate distribution. (I noticed you are also using some brushed-like background, so it kinda fits with it ;-)

Would you agree when I include this editor in the brushed distro ? --DF

Dirk,

you are doing a great job with BrushedTemplate, it's good to have someone like you with that JavaScript know how with us in JSPWiki. I whish i could already jump to the latest version of jspwiki and switch to your template, but we have to many productive wikis running on 2.2.33. Chuck integrated it into the latest version but since we are not using it on a day by day basis - you know...

Therefore it would be great if you would integrate it in your template so that we get more feedback on WikiWizard integration into the latest versions. We will help you wherever we can with this.

so, yea, i would love to see that :-)

--ChristophSauer


I am having problem getting the WikiWizard working (from the vanilla 2.4 installation) on Internet Explorer. I can edit pages, but am not able to save. When I try to save, I would receive a "'document.editForm.ok' is null or not an object" error. Any help would be appreciated.

--Felix, 12-Sep-2006


Felix, do you have a 1.4 or 1.5 JRE installed? I know that the Save button doesn't work with a 1.4 JVM, you need a 1.5 JVM.

--Duncan, 12-Sep-2006


Duncan, I am using 1.5. I think I saw a bug report on this on the other page. The editor works fine in Firefox but not IE, which won't work for us because IE is our standard browser.

--felix, 13-Sep-2006


I can also confirm that the Save, Preview and Cancel buttons do not work with IE6 (Javascript error), it works fine with Firefox. The requirements state that Java 1.4 is needed, not 1.5 (I hope not). This is with 2.4.53 and the Brushed template, I copied WikiWizard.jsp from the default template to brushed to be sure to have the latest version.

Correction: Chuck's fix on WikiWizardBugReports seems to work.

--MP


I believe I'm too late on this, but I think WikiWizard is just not the right way to go, for a couple of reasons.

1. Not true WYSIWYG. I believe WYSIWYG is less scary to the general user than wiki markup. Moreover, I believe that even people who can understand wiki markup don't want to, because it's different for every wiki. WikiWizard is not true WYSIWYG, because the markup is peeking out at various points.

2. Defies user expectations. The first time I tried WikiWizard, I saw a huge Sun Java logo for a loong time. I believe this would be scary to someone who doesn't know what's going on. People are used to Javascript editors loading.

3. Slow. Even now, whenever I click "Edit" I see a load bar.

4. Decoupled from the web page. For example, scroll the web page down, then click up arrow in the edit window. The cursor goes off the page. Why? Because the editor is decoupled from the web page.

I'm sorry that JSPWiki has taken this direction. It seems out of touch with the rest of the "Web 2.0" community (for lack of a better term). Apparently it took face-to-face contact with users at a conference to convince Janne of the importance of "Change note"s, which again I would take as a wiki given. I wonder if there is any face-to-face contact over this?

--dfrankow

Yes, and that's exactly the reason why I included WikiWizard. It was a great demo by Christoph that sold me the idea. (In fact, it was Christoph who also sold me the change notes idea :-D)

And hey, it works way better than FCK, which was seriously broken in so many ways I didn't dare to put it in the stable.

But anyway, it's not like we're endorsing this as the "one and only" feature for editing wiki pages. If someone would like to start supporting FCK or true WYSIWYG, that would be great, and I would gladly include it in the distro. But at the moment WikiWizard is the only non-plaintext editor that works without serious problems (e.g. it does not destroy page content randomly).

-- JanneJalkanen

I already answered to Dan in this thread. Here's more on this "web 2.0 vs. applets" case:

1. WikiWizard is not true WYSIWYG, thats the idea. Hopefully Creole will fix the issue with different markups. A renderer for creole is already in the CVS. We are working on a creole page filter as well. It will soon be available to JSPWiki users.

2. You can disable the logo by a simple applet tag.

3. In WikiWizard 1.0 the configuration files where not loaded in a thread. We didn't recognize this until it was deployed outside our intranet. That slowed down loading time over the internet. This has bin fixed in 1.1, alredy available for download. It now starts almost instantly.

Maybe AJAX will finally deliver a way to replace applets completely, and belive me, we are watching it closely and considering it. If you look into the 2.5 codebase you will see that Janne is already integrating ajax into the default editor, so there is no point in complaining that JSPWiki is not Web 2.0. It was Web 2.0 before there was even a term for it. We can use the resulting JSON RPC interface in WikiWizard as well, so theres vivid development on this.

But for now there is stuff I need to do that I don't know right know how to do with ajax. In WikiWizard 1.1 you can upload multiple files, and access the local clipboard (You can do this in IE with JavaScript as well, but this is considered a bug, not a feature. And because WikiWizard is signed, I can interact with the local machine in general. With flickr for example you have to install extra software for this - but nobody is mentioning this when complaining about applets.

We will not throw away everything we did so far with WikiWizard, because we need those features now. The editor choice is a dropdown box, there's place for your contribution to JSPWiki as well.

--ChristophSauer 29. Dec 2006


I like having the editor avaliable to my end users, but was wondering if there was a guide on how to install it back into the product after loading another template (like the wonderful MediaWiki template). Then I could have a great look from some other template choices and have my editor all in a nice implimentation.

Any short comments on how to reintegrate would be helpful.

--Michael Kanemoto, 12-Oct-2006

Take a look at IdeaEditorProviders. You might have to adapt WikiWizard.jsp. Maybe this feature is not implemented for the template yet.

--ChristophSauer, 6-Jan-2006


This looks great! Exactly what I was looking for! I'm going to try it out right away. The best features are the table editor and the copy-pasting. :D

--A happy wikiuser, 14-Dec-2006


Could anyone explain me, how to configure JSPWiki in order to use the great WikiWizard as default editor? THX from a newbie!

--AnonymousCoward, 27-Dec-2006

Set the jspwiki.editor property in the jspwiki.properties file to "WikiWizard"

--ChristophSauer, 29-Dec-2006

"jspwiki.editor = WikiWizard" works fine! Thanks for the great WikiWizard!


Mac problems

I've tried to use the wizard several times on my Mac (OSX 10.4). Using Firefox 2 it stops at 85% (7/7), sometimes freezing FF. Opera 9 loads the applet, but forgets to show the content. Safari works surprisingly fast. My standard browser is FF, but this might be a reason to start using Safari again.

RvW, 31-Jan-2007

wikEd

Check out wikEd, an editor for MediaWikis (including Wikipedia) written in JavaScript, it has much in common with WikiWizard.

Cacycle, 01.04.07 00:19:20


I have a problem with the WikiWizard certificate!!!

When I open the wikizard I am getting a popup window which tells me about an old certificate. How can I avoid these problem ... I don't want all the users to click "ok" due to usability and user-friendly behaviour!

LG, Tom

--Mantsch Thomas, 27-Dec-2007


WikiWizard is a wonderful addition to JSPWiki. Although the wiki syntax are quite intimidating to new users and often the reason that prevent them from using the wiki. Please offer a second mode of editing for WikiWizard. For example:

EZ Edit mode = hide all wiki syntax (true WYSIWYG)

Advance mode = show all wiki syntax (this is how WikiWizard currently work)

Users can quickly change mode to their liking via a button in the menu. This will make both camp happy and greatly increase the adoption rate for the wiki.

--New JSPWiki User, 01-Jan-2008


What are the differences between the Wiki Wizard editor on JSPWiki and the editor at http://wikiwizard.org/?

--AnoCow, 06-Jan-2008


I have users that do not have full admin rights on their windows XP desktops. When they try and run Wiki Wizard they are seeing the following error in the Desktop Java console......

WikiWizardDiscussion/wikiwizardError.gif(info)

Any ideas on how I could change the applet install location to somewhere where the users have write access?

Or any other ideas greatly appreciated.

--DanB, 19-Dec-2008


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